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	<title>Comments on: Digital post-colonialism</title>
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	<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/</link>
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		<title>By: Cllr Angus Nicolson</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-2421</link>
		<dc:creator>Cllr Angus Nicolson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-2421</guid>
		<description>#10 John is right, I have retired (taken a sabbatical) from the Council due to my wife and I having another baby and due to work pressures, not age or infirmity.  Aged 44, I remain (until 3/5/07) the second youngest Councillor in the Western Isles; the youngest Chairman ever; and the only one with any general IT skills.

It&#039;s depressing that the likely average age of Councillors will increase for the second successive election, but that is a function of the electoral system, which favours the retired and unemployed (unemployable) as candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10 John is right, I have retired (taken a sabbatical) from the Council due to my wife and I having another baby and due to work pressures, not age or infirmity.  Aged 44, I remain (until 3/5/07) the second youngest Councillor in the Western Isles; the youngest Chairman ever; and the only one with any general IT skills.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s depressing that the likely average age of Councillors will increase for the second successive election, but that is a function of the electoral system, which favours the retired and unemployed (unemployable) as candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kirriemuir</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kirriemuir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Richard,

See you (or anyone else) for a BBQ on the beach if you are passing Berneray this summer. We&#039;re usually on de west beach round sunset:

http://www.silversprite.com/?p=241</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>See you (or anyone else) for a BBQ on the beach if you are passing Berneray this summer. We&#8217;re usually on de west beach round sunset:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.silversprite.com/?p=241" rel="nofollow">http://www.silversprite.com/?p=241</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Sandford</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Sandford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-349</guid>
		<description>&quot;...my local idea of a “Digital Native” (if we have to pigeonhole a “typical” person) now is a crofters wife, in her 60’s, first language Gaelic, who goes to church then goes online (but NOT on the Sabbath) and does her emails, online shopping, ebay, and checks the weather forecast and the latest price that sheep have fetched in Lochmaddy market for her husband&quot;

Fantastic, John - good to hear from you. These thoughts need to be a proper post, not relegated to a comment! Your blog&#039;s still going, right? =]

Hope you find a way to share your neighbours&#039; experiences with those of us who don&#039;t get to live in such a wonderful place, as well - looking forward to seeing it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;my local idea of a “Digital Native” (if we have to pigeonhole a “typical” person) now is a crofters wife, in her 60’s, first language Gaelic, who goes to church then goes online (but NOT on the Sabbath) and does her emails, online shopping, ebay, and checks the weather forecast and the latest price that sheep have fetched in Lochmaddy market for her husband&#8221;</p>
<p>Fantastic, John &#8211; good to hear from you. These thoughts need to be a proper post, not relegated to a comment! Your blog&#8217;s still going, right? =]</p>
<p>Hope you find a way to share your neighbours&#8217; experiences with those of us who don&#8217;t get to live in such a wonderful place, as well &#8211; looking forward to seeing it!</p>
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		<title>By: John Kirriemuir</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-341</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kirriemuir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 01:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-341</guid>
		<description>The DN concept is an interesting one that has increasingly bothered me. Explanation: I live on an island of 130 permanent residents in the Outer Hebrides. On it there are 19 children; most of the other residents are people aged 45+ and upwards. I&#039;m one of only 5 permanent residents in their 30&#039;s (good job I&#039;m not in the dating game).

On the surface, the Digital Natives concept would appear to be valid. The schoolkids do appear - prominently - to be using a wide variety of digital media, with games prominent (though not as central as convention points out) as is the Internet. I know this from research am doing that will be presented shortly.

However, it&#039;s the other 111 who are becoming  more interesting. For after a while, it becomes apparent that they use various online resources and services, often to a quite serious depth. It&#039;s just that they aren&#039;t so open (brash) about it, and just quietly get on with using such technologies in a more functional way. For example, there&#039;s a knot of people in their 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s who are avid buyers of spare parts for their cars on Ebay. Not casually, but frequently. One retired person has used video conferencing for years (on dial-up!) to keep in touch with her family in New Caledonia (a pacific island). 

Online shopping is something a lot of the older folk have down to a fine art, which is why the four delivery companies are always on the island. The resident who is most skilled and experienced in Internet use is a somewhat angry middle-aged man who has run a campaign against tourists in campervans through setting up false websites and re-routing IP stuff for many years. Some of the locals who claim never to have played a video game are suspiciously good at them, even taking into account the ease of using the Wii. Several adults have got together to experiment with many cat food and cat litter online shops to work out the best. Many adults online banking, which is very much a necessity if you are self-employed, as the mobile bank van zooms through once a week and is difficult to stop. Most book airline tickets online as it&#039;s quickest to find out the cheapest option. 

I run a local e-news mailing list (no kids, only adults on it), and whenever I say that the minutes of the Community Council are available on the island website - www.isleofberneray.com - the hits on said website rocket *within the hour*. From the stats, there is evidence that many local adults go online frequently. There&#039;s other stuff that happens online here you wouldn&#039;t believe, so there&#039;s little point in describing it - suffice to say, it&#039;s usually older people who are the catalyst for it. Some specific people involved in local groups are frighteningly skilled in monitoring and finding funding online (there is a local phrase &quot;to catch a passing grant&quot;).

And probably the website that gets the most hits from residents collectively is ... not MySpace, Bebo or similar, but ... http://www.findafishingboat.co.uk/ as used by most of the fishermen; they buy and sell their boats (for scary amounts of money) on there. When I tried to explain Web 2.0 concepts to some, they looked puzzled and replied but that&#039;s what they&#039;d been doing for years with this website and others. When broadband arrived a year ago, there was a domino effect - as soon as one place got and people saw how quick it was, others have followed. Now we&#039;re up to 18 buildings with it installed, and as soon as they&#039;ve sorted out the relay masts most of the others will go for it as well. 

There are aspects of contributing - openly - to various &quot;social&quot; websites that probably give the impression that it&#039;s just younger people using them, especially various forum such as http://www.stornowaychat.co.uk/  However, the only councillor in the Outer Hebrides who is openly blogging is approaching retirement age - http://angusnicolson.blogspot.com/ - while many if not most of the bloggers and commenters on the BBC Island Blogging service - http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/islandblogging/blogs.shtml (very local humour that possibly doesn&#039;t transmit) are people aged 30 to 50.

I&#039;ve come round to the idea that the kids tend to cluster around a fragmented culture of digital &quot;stuff&quot;, using a lot of software and hardware but nothing to great depth. However, most of the adults use digital/net stuff, usually a narrower range of &quot;stuff&quot; but in much greater depth and experience. And they do it with quiet confidence. 

So my local idea of a &quot;Digital Native&quot; (if we have to pigeonhole a &quot;typical&quot; person) now is a crofters wife, in her 60&#039;s, first language Gaelic, who goes to church then goes online (but NOT on the Sabbath) and does her emails, online shopping, ebay, and checks the weather forecast and the latest price that sheep have fetched in Lochmaddy market for her husband. Even that is way too simplistic; it&#039;s too &quot;messy&quot; a concept to be pinned down here, and therefore perhaps has limited use. I&#039;m glad I&#039;ve read Richards piece, as it&#039;s focused and inspired me to go find a bit of funding to interview all 130 residents and get some solid data on local adults and their digital use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The DN concept is an interesting one that has increasingly bothered me. Explanation: I live on an island of 130 permanent residents in the Outer Hebrides. On it there are 19 children; most of the other residents are people aged 45+ and upwards. I&#8217;m one of only 5 permanent residents in their 30&#8217;s (good job I&#8217;m not in the dating game).</p>
<p>On the surface, the Digital Natives concept would appear to be valid. The schoolkids do appear &#8211; prominently &#8211; to be using a wide variety of digital media, with games prominent (though not as central as convention points out) as is the Internet. I know this from research am doing that will be presented shortly.</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s the other 111 who are becoming  more interesting. For after a while, it becomes apparent that they use various online resources and services, often to a quite serious depth. It&#8217;s just that they aren&#8217;t so open (brash) about it, and just quietly get on with using such technologies in a more functional way. For example, there&#8217;s a knot of people in their 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s who are avid buyers of spare parts for their cars on Ebay. Not casually, but frequently. One retired person has used video conferencing for years (on dial-up!) to keep in touch with her family in New Caledonia (a pacific island). </p>
<p>Online shopping is something a lot of the older folk have down to a fine art, which is why the four delivery companies are always on the island. The resident who is most skilled and experienced in Internet use is a somewhat angry middle-aged man who has run a campaign against tourists in campervans through setting up false websites and re-routing IP stuff for many years. Some of the locals who claim never to have played a video game are suspiciously good at them, even taking into account the ease of using the Wii. Several adults have got together to experiment with many cat food and cat litter online shops to work out the best. Many adults online banking, which is very much a necessity if you are self-employed, as the mobile bank van zooms through once a week and is difficult to stop. Most book airline tickets online as it&#8217;s quickest to find out the cheapest option. </p>
<p>I run a local e-news mailing list (no kids, only adults on it), and whenever I say that the minutes of the Community Council are available on the island website &#8211; <a href="http://www.isleofberneray.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.isleofberneray.com</a> &#8211; the hits on said website rocket *within the hour*. From the stats, there is evidence that many local adults go online frequently. There&#8217;s other stuff that happens online here you wouldn&#8217;t believe, so there&#8217;s little point in describing it &#8211; suffice to say, it&#8217;s usually older people who are the catalyst for it. Some specific people involved in local groups are frighteningly skilled in monitoring and finding funding online (there is a local phrase &#8220;to catch a passing grant&#8221;).</p>
<p>And probably the website that gets the most hits from residents collectively is &#8230; not MySpace, Bebo or similar, but &#8230; <a href="http://www.findafishingboat.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.findafishingboat.co.uk/</a> as used by most of the fishermen; they buy and sell their boats (for scary amounts of money) on there. When I tried to explain Web 2.0 concepts to some, they looked puzzled and replied but that&#8217;s what they&#8217;d been doing for years with this website and others. When broadband arrived a year ago, there was a domino effect &#8211; as soon as one place got and people saw how quick it was, others have followed. Now we&#8217;re up to 18 buildings with it installed, and as soon as they&#8217;ve sorted out the relay masts most of the others will go for it as well. </p>
<p>There are aspects of contributing &#8211; openly &#8211; to various &#8220;social&#8221; websites that probably give the impression that it&#8217;s just younger people using them, especially various forum such as <a href="http://www.stornowaychat.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.stornowaychat.co.uk/</a>  However, the only councillor in the Outer Hebrides who is openly blogging is approaching retirement age &#8211; <a href="http://angusnicolson.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://angusnicolson.blogspot.com/</a> &#8211; while many if not most of the bloggers and commenters on the BBC Island Blogging service &#8211; <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/islandblogging/blogs.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/islandblogging/blogs.shtml</a> (very local humour that possibly doesn&#8217;t transmit) are people aged 30 to 50.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve come round to the idea that the kids tend to cluster around a fragmented culture of digital &#8220;stuff&#8221;, using a lot of software and hardware but nothing to great depth. However, most of the adults use digital/net stuff, usually a narrower range of &#8220;stuff&#8221; but in much greater depth and experience. And they do it with quiet confidence. </p>
<p>So my local idea of a &#8220;Digital Native&#8221; (if we have to pigeonhole a &#8220;typical&#8221; person) now is a crofters wife, in her 60&#8217;s, first language Gaelic, who goes to church then goes online (but NOT on the Sabbath) and does her emails, online shopping, ebay, and checks the weather forecast and the latest price that sheep have fetched in Lochmaddy market for her husband. Even that is way too simplistic; it&#8217;s too &#8220;messy&#8221; a concept to be pinned down here, and therefore perhaps has limited use. I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;ve read Richards piece, as it&#8217;s focused and inspired me to go find a bit of funding to interview all 130 residents and get some solid data on local adults and their digital use.</p>
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		<title>By: ebook</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>ebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-149</guid>
		<description>Hi, a great source of some really useful information. Thanks I&#039;ve added you to my favourites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, a great source of some really useful information. Thanks I&#8217;ve added you to my favourites.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kerr</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-53</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s a tragic picture: Adults trapped by age and fate on one side of an unbridgeable chasm, doomed to extinction and irrelevance but still trying to shout improving maxims to the young people on the other side; alas, the constant beeping and flashing of the iPods and PlayStations and mobile telephones drowns their words, and the youth continue on their journey towards a land their parents cannot understand&quot;

This is poetry Richard!

btw I&#039;ve collected a variety of critiques of Prensky&#039;s saying &lt;a href=&#039;http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nativesImmigrants&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s a tragic picture: Adults trapped by age and fate on one side of an unbridgeable chasm, doomed to extinction and irrelevance but still trying to shout improving maxims to the young people on the other side; alas, the constant beeping and flashing of the iPods and PlayStations and mobile telephones drowns their words, and the youth continue on their journey towards a land their parents cannot understand&#8221;</p>
<p>This is poetry Richard!</p>
<p>btw I&#8217;ve collected a variety of critiques of Prensky&#8217;s saying <a href='http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nativesImmigrants' rel="nofollow"> here </a></p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Livingstone</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Livingstone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>I also get infuriated with the use of the digital natives/digital immigrants terms. Sufficiently so, that I&#039;ve dedicated a large part of my blog to discussing the ideas and nit-picking my way through some of Prensky&#039;s papers and books. (see http://learninggames.wordpress.com/tag/digital-natives/)

What has really amazed me is how casually many of the digital native concepts were introduced with absolutely no foundation or evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also get infuriated with the use of the digital natives/digital immigrants terms. Sufficiently so, that I&#8217;ve dedicated a large part of my blog to discussing the ideas and nit-picking my way through some of Prensky&#8217;s papers and books. (see <a href="http://learninggames.wordpress.com/tag/digital-natives/)" rel="nofollow">http://learninggames.wordpress.com/tag/digital-natives/)</a></p>
<p>What has really amazed me is how casually many of the digital native concepts were introduced with absolutely no foundation or evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Flux &#187; Articles &#187; The Generation Game</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Flux &#187; Articles &#187; The Generation Game</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-49</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is an antidote to immigrant/native issues allude to in Richard’s Digital post-colonialism. Over the past year Futurelab has been part of a group, La Piazza, exploring issues of intergenerational learning in technology enhanced public spaces.  You can find out more about Piazza here and here. There are a number of interesting dimensions – the generations, informal learning, spaces as well as technology. In a recent day of field work with a group ranging from 9 to 80 years of age, the most significant factors were all of the above – but technology less so. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly Christopherson</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly Christopherson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Finally, someone who is willing to point out the obvious. I, too, am so sick of that statement by Prensky. I agree with your assessment of the whole digital phrase he has coined. I&#039;ve listened to too many educators use it while teaching grade 3 &amp; 4&#039;s, saying they know so much. Come on, they know very little but they can turn the machine on and are willing to try things. As for understanding what they are getting and being able to distinguish fact from garbage, no. The teens can play games, IM and do other things but for a vast majority, it&#039;s still about &quot;I&quot; and not about enriching the learning environment. Take a look at the blogosphere of educators right now - there is an identity crisis taking place with many of them as they try to find out what to do next, where to go, are we doing enough, can&#039;t we go faster, look at the kids, they&#039;re way ahead, OH my gosh, my blog count has dropped! Who cares! I thought this was about using tools to help kids understand. And, from my perspective, they need quite a bit of work in this area - I don&#039;t care how well they game as a group. And always remember Prensky makes a living selling games! The more he can convince adults that they know nothing and won&#039;t, the more money he makes. 
Kelly</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, someone who is willing to point out the obvious. I, too, am so sick of that statement by Prensky. I agree with your assessment of the whole digital phrase he has coined. I&#8217;ve listened to too many educators use it while teaching grade 3 &amp; 4&#8217;s, saying they know so much. Come on, they know very little but they can turn the machine on and are willing to try things. As for understanding what they are getting and being able to distinguish fact from garbage, no. The teens can play games, IM and do other things but for a vast majority, it&#8217;s still about &#8220;I&#8221; and not about enriching the learning environment. Take a look at the blogosphere of educators right now &#8211; there is an identity crisis taking place with many of them as they try to find out what to do next, where to go, are we doing enough, can&#8217;t we go faster, look at the kids, they&#8217;re way ahead, OH my gosh, my blog count has dropped! Who cares! I thought this was about using tools to help kids understand. And, from my perspective, they need quite a bit of work in this area &#8211; I don&#8217;t care how well they game as a group. And always remember Prensky makes a living selling games! The more he can convince adults that they know nothing and won&#8217;t, the more money he makes.<br />
Kelly</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Belshaw</title>
		<link>http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Belshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/index.php/2006/12/14/digital-post-colonialism/#comment-38</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve talked about just this recently on my blog in a post entitled &lt;a href=&quot;http://teaching.mrbelshaw.co.uk/index.php/2006/11/23/digital-natives-mountain-men-and-pioneers&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Digital Natives, Mountain Men and Pioneers&lt;/a&gt;. I too am sick to death of people needlessly putting people in boxes, but if we are going to use metaphors and similies, perhaps the ones I&#039;ve suggested may be more relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve talked about just this recently on my blog in a post entitled <a href="http://teaching.mrbelshaw.co.uk/index.php/2006/11/23/digital-natives-mountain-men-and-pioneers" rel="nofollow">Digital Natives, Mountain Men and Pioneers</a>. I too am sick to death of people needlessly putting people in boxes, but if we are going to use metaphors and similies, perhaps the ones I&#8217;ve suggested may be more relevant.</p>
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